Front Row Seat: Loving the Church

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Kari Olson
Well, Kristen, I was getting nervous. I was counting out the number of people ahead of me before it was my turn to speak. See, I was at a leaders meeting. And we were just given the simple task to introduce ourself and tell everyone what we did there at the church. But my husband was the brand new campus pastor. And we were just getting settled. So I really wasn’t involved in anything just yet. It felt like, although this wasn’t their intention, the moment felt like that dreaded question that every pastor’s wife fears. So what is it that you do hear? No, sometimes. But thankfully, that night, I did think of something. So I stood up, and I said, Hi, I’m Carrie Olson, and I’m in charge of pastoral care. And that is the Care and Keeping of your new pastor. Read, I was trying to be funny. But really, that question does get me sometimes. What do I do? What do I do? You know, I’ve had many opportunities to serve my church. And some of those opportunities have really been in line with my interests, and my spiritual giftings and others have not. But the what, what I get involved in, I mean, that naturally changes with my season of life, and my availability, maybe my capacity or the needs at the church. So sometimes I think the better question for me is, why? Why do I do what I do? Why do we do what we do as pastors wives, because the Y influences our attitude, and our attitude is really important. So praise God, praise God, that our attitude towards the church can continually be consistently be fueled by the gracious and humble mindset of Jesus Christ, no matter what we get involved in. Yeah,

Kristen Wetherell
that is so true. And it’s really helpful to distinguish the what from the why. And to discern what that motivation really is, because God tells us that he looks on the heart. He’s concerned about, about the things that we can’t see he’s not concerned primarily about the doing but about the why we’re doing it. So this is the topic for our episode today. It is loving and serving the church. And we are so excited to be talking about this with pastor’s wife, Megan Hill, Megan, it’s so fun to have you here. You’re married to Reverend Rob Hill, and he is a senior pastor at West Springfield to covenant Community Church, you guys are in Massachusetts. Meghan is also she works for the gospel coalition. And she is also an author and a couple of her books that you’ll want to know about our partners in the Gospel. These are meditations for pastors, and elders, wives, and a book called a place to belong, learning to love the local church, which is what we are talking about today. So Megan, welcome to front row seat conversations of encouragement for pastors, wives, by pastors wives, and you are one of those. We’re so happy that you’re here.

Megan Hill
Thanks so much for having me. It’s great to be here.

Kristen Wetherell
So fun. I’m wondering, Megan, if you could just tell us a little bit about yourself. Tell us about your family about your kids. And what does ministry life look for? You look like for you guys these days?

Megan Hill
Yeah. So I grew up in Connecticut. I’m a pastor’s daughter. So I grew up in a pastor’s family. And then, when I got married to my husband, he became the pastor of a church in Mississippi. And so we’re in the PCA and he’s a pastor. He was pastor of church in Mississippi for 12 years. We have four children, three teenage boys and one little girl who’s in kindergarten. And then seven years ago, then he moved to the church that we’re currently at in Western Massachusetts, which is actually only like 45 minutes from where I grew up. So our church in Massachusetts is probably about 125 people. aware, the community that we’re in, by some metrics is the most secular place in the United States, the most secular metropolitan area in the United States. So there are very few churches here we are in a town of 20,000 people in our Our church is the only gospel preaching church in the whole town. So it’s, it’s good work, but it does sometimes feel like Christians are few and far between here. So and and then for that reason, then in the church, it’s very much sort of all hands on deck, you know, you can do the nursery, great. You can do Sunday school, great, you can lay down tables, great, you know, whatever you can do. But I will say that the people in my church are all you know, are doing those things right alongside Yeah,

Kari Olson
yeah. That’s so good. I’m sure that it sounds like you’ve had a different experience at each place, first, the east and then the South, and then small and big man, everything? Well, as we’re talking about loving and serving the church. Let’s get right in. What would you say? Is the difference between serving Christ and serving the church? Is there a difference?

Megan Hill
Yeah, probably, I would say that the one flows from the other. So our ultimate goal, of course, is to serve Christ. And we live as the Puritans used to say before the face of God, right. So the things that we do we do with an eye to God and with pleasing Him, and, and you know, he’s, he’s the ultimate one that we’re seeking to serve. And yet what, what is, what does God Himself do? Well, he served the church, because he sent Christ to die on the cross, that He might redeem this bride for himself and perfect her and presented her to Himself on the last day. And so, so as we serve the Lord, then sort of a natural outworking of that is going to be to love the work of service that he himself does, which is serving the church.

Kari Olson
That’s, that’s so true. That’s kind of answered my question of how did they intersect? But in what ways? Can this be a challenge, though, for us?

Megan Hill
Yeah, I think it can be a challenge. Because I do think we need to remember that sort of, ultimately, it’s serving the Lord. And we don’t get a lot of feedback sometimes from the Lord as it were. And we get a lot of feedback from the church. And there’s a lot of people with a lot of different opinions. And so sometimes being in the church can feel a little frenetic oh, this person doesn’t like this, this person needs this, and this person wants this and, you know, sort of the to do list and the multiple opinions can be overwhelming. And so I think that’s the challenge. I think perhaps the answer to that is sort of develop that single minded, Lord, I’m serving you. And that means serving these people. But ultimately, I answer to you. Yeah,

Kari Olson
yeah. Thank you.

Kristen Wetherell
Yeah, absolutely. So that’s, that’s really helpful, because it kind of grounds us as we start this episode, you know, why are we doing what we’re doing? As we mentioned before, we are wanting to serve the Lord Christ, which every single believer is called to do, not just pastors wives. But then I imagine some women listening might be thinking, okay, but I’m new to this, like I, my husband, I just got married, or we’re newer to the ministry yours. How does this work itself out? I am trying to figure out where God wants me how I can be useful to the church. So what might a pastor’s wife do to begin, like, if she wants to be faithful for the long haul? And joyfully serve the church? What might be a good starting point for her?

Megan Hill
Yeah, I think that’s a really good question. Sort of, you’re right. When you’re starting out, you look at your church, and you think, usually, the needs are so great, right? There’s so many things that I could be doing. And, look, they need someone to teach women’s Bible study, and oh, look, they need somebody to help in the nursery, and oh, look, they just need somebody to just sing because nobody’s singing and, you know, just a whole variety of things that need to be done. And I think that, you know, on the one hand, I think it’s good to sort of take stock of yourself, and what are the gifts that the Lord has given you also to look at your church and sort of where are those acute needs? Where it doesn’t seem like other people are sort of stepping up? I think getting counsel is always wise, ask your husband, hey, what will be helpful? What do you think will be helpful if I did ask a godly, older woman in your church? You know, ask the elders, you know, just depending on what your situation is, well, I want to do something. What would where where, where should I start? But then I also think that it’s possible to sort of overthink it and think, oh, there’s some perfect place to serve. And if I could just find that her Replace. And, you know, the the old Elisabeth Elliot saying just do the next thing I think can sometimes be also a helpful corrective to that. And, hey, you’re sitting in the church kitchen, nobody’s doing the dishes. All right, today, Lauren, I’m gonna do the dishes. And, you know, tomorrow you’re standing in the back, and nobody’s talking to those visitors. Okay, today I’m going to talk to those visitors, you know, so think there’s kind of a balance between assessing our own gifts and the needs, and also just doing the thing that’s right there.

Kari Olson
Yeah, that’s so good. Because ministry does look different for every pastor’s wife based on like what you indicated, based on the need based on her spiritual gifting. So personally, how did you determine where to serve? And how to serve? What do you have a process? There are? Yeah,

Megan Hill
I mean, I think it is some combination of sort of prayer and seeking advice. And also, maybe, like you say, sort of realizing that this isn’t forever, you know, I’m not just because I’m teaching the women’s Bible study right now. Doesn’t mean I’m always the women’s Bible study teacher, you know, just because I’m the nursery coordinator now, doesn’t mean I’m always the nursery coordinator. It just means that needs to be done, I’m able to do it, I’m going to do it. And so I think one big thing, you know, I’ve been a pastor’s wife now for 17 years. One of one big thing that I’ve learned is just to be flexible, and just to do the thing for this season, and then sort of reevaluate in the next season.

Kari Olson
We need to we need to be flexible.

Megan Hill
And so it’s good for your church too, right? Because then, you know, especially in a small church, I think it’s easy for people to think, Oh, well, that’s, that’s Megan’s thing. That’s what she does. And oh, that’s Carrie thing. That’s what she does. And that’s not really the church is organic, and people are coming and going, and they are developing gifts that, you know, five years ago, maybe there weren’t any women who had that gift, but now the Lord’s raised them up, and they have it and there needs to be a place for them to use it. And so I think it serves your church, when you yourself said an example of being flexible. Hmm,

Kari Olson
that’s good. You know, I we were going to ask to, you know, how does your role as a pastor’s wife play into those decisions and the process of deciding where to serve? So, so keep talking about that?

Megan Hill
Yeah, you know, one thing that I that my husband and I always said is sort of that a pastor’s wife isn’t, you know, sort of a special class of person. She’s not, you know, holier than everybody else. She does know it all together more than anybody else. But she does have the unique opportunity to be more visible than everyone else. And so that is, you know, a blessing and a challenge. But it’s also a responsibility, because you are sort of modeling faithfulness for people. And, of course, you’re modeling repentance when you sin, and you’re modeling weakness, and you’re, you know, but, but you’re modeling, sort of serving the church and what what that looks like, and if you’ve been at a church for any number of years, they’ve gotten to see you in a variety of seasons, too, whether that’s, you know, no children or young children, whether that’s working outside the home or not working outside the home, whether that’s, you know, financial difficulties, whatever. They, they kind of over the years, they get to see faithfulness in a variety of circumstances. And I think, you know, sort of just serving faithfully in the moment the Lord has given you really models to the people in the church. Hey, I can serve faithfully in this moment, too.

Kristen Wetherell
Yeah, I’m gonna, wow, that’s really helpful. I’m taking that away with me model faithfulness. That’s a wonderful aim. Because I do we do feel in the front row seat, right? We feel like eyes are on us whether they are or not. I’ve heard it said that people are thinking about you less than you think that they’re thinking about you. So that’s also true. But there is something to the front row seat, right? There is something to the fact that you are in a position of influence that perhaps others are not. And so that’s really helpful to me, my goal is to model faithfulness to God. And what that just frees me up honestly, from trying to please man, right. So thinking about that, kind of applying that the question comes to mind, how do I know then, as I’m pursuing modeling faithfulness, how do I know when I’m doing too much? And how do I know when I’m doing too little when I’m kind of using that pastor’s wife card is like a cop out? Well, I’m the pastor’s wife. I mean, that’s enough in itself, isn’t it? I’m pastoral care carry um,

Kari Olson
isn’t that that’s what I’m in charge. Let’s

Kristen Wetherell
talk a little bit about that counsel is Mike and how do we know when we’re doing too much? And conversely, how do we know when we’re not? When we’re not being faithful?

Megan Hill
Yeah. And of course, you know, there’s no sort of metric or diagnostic tests. I wish, you know, I love those charts where it’s like, if this is true, yes, then the arrow goes this way this is wrong, then no, the arrow goes this way. Right? I wish there’s one of those, like, if you’re doing these three things, Nope, you’re doing too much. But But of course, there isn’t right, of course, that it’s, it’s a matter for prayer, for our conscience for the Holy Spirit to work in us. It’s also a matter for counsel. You know, if your husband is saying, Hey, honey, I think you’re doing too much, or, man, I really need help over here, you know, the church could really use you, you know, to take that or if an older woman in the church is saying those things to you, you know, to take that council on board, I think is good. But I do think that, at least in Scripture, we do seem to have some at least priorities that I think can help us sort of diagnose if we’re, we’re seeking sort of the highest priorities in favor of lower priorities. Or we’re actually, yeah, that could either be in a direction of doing too much, we’re trying to do everything, so we’re not doing things well. It also could be in a direction of laziness, we would rather do some things that are lower on the priority level, you know, that can help us diagnose. So, for example, I think the state of your own soul is a huge priority. And you taking time with the Lord, prayer, and reading the scriptures and worshiping Him and growing in grace and seeking the help of the Holy Spirit, that that’s the number one priority, then I think beyond that, you know, the Lord has given you sort of a little church, in your, your own home, your your husband, or if you have children, your children. And though those are that’s kind of the next step of priority. Now, I will say, and I think we’re gonna get to this maybe a little later in our conversation, that doesn’t mean that you have to be 27 24/7 on call for every possible need that these people in your home have. But they’re, you know, they’re a priority, then I do think beyond that your local church is, is sort of the next level of priority, and if there are needs there, and then sort of beyond that, you know, that the community around you, those people who are not walking with the Lord, those people who need to hear from the Lord. And I think there’s some level in which we have to hit all of those, but that there also sort of, there’s sort of a ranking and so if that’s gone seriously askew, in one way or another, I think it’s a chance to reevaluate.

Kari Olson
I appreciate that. That’s, that’s good. It’s, it’s very close to one of those graphs that you so so let’s look at that. Then let’s look at we just need counsel What does not serve the church as a pastor’s wife? Are there certain things that are just obvious maybe we it’s okay to state the obvious things, but but other pitfalls, that we fall into things that we do with good intentions, but what would you say does not serve the church?

Megan Hill
I think, I think a lot of it honestly comes down to attitude. I think things like complaining and grumbling, things like, you know, speaking poorly of your husband, or the people in your church, I think, you know, any of those things that just sort of even sort of negativity, like feeling, you know, expressing in some way that you feel like the church is, you know, is in a bad place. Now, that’s not to say we can’t acknowledge that there are hardships because there are, but I think God’s people are fundamentally optimistic about the future of the church. I mean, Jesus says that he’s going to present the church to himself as a bride in splendor. And so so even if we acknowledge things are hard right now, we still have this fundamental optimism, that that Christ is building his church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. And so I think we we failed to serve the church. We failed to serve the Lord ultimately, right as we talked about when we are when we’re negative or discouraged or, or a tearing down something that he has promised that He is building.

Kristen Wetherell
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, Jesus loves His church. I’ll never forget, like the first time that I ever heard that from someone, I can’t even remember who it was or where I was. But that was so eye opening for me. Jesus loves His church. And so he is he’s calling me to that same love. And that same value, not in the same way, because only Christ died for his church. But to even ask him for that love and that attitude. Wow, that’s a beautiful thing. So one of those hardships. Megan, is the inopportune times when the church just has a knack for taking our husbands away. You know, dinnertime bedtime, especially when you have little kids, even holidays and family vacations, that that for carrying has been a challenge for sure. How have you processed that reality? And what? How does your internal dialogue sound in those moments?

Megan Hill
Yeah, right. Okay. So I actually have a verse for this situation, because it happens to me a lot. I, early, probably early in my years as a pastor’s wife, there was lots of crying into the dishes on what was supposed to be, you know, our anniversary, or our date night or, you know, either my husband is gone, or he’s locked in the bedroom on a long phone call. And I know, you know, when he comes out, he’s gonna be so discouraged and tired, you know, whatever. So, so I have a verse, and I’m gonna read it. It’s first from First Thessalonians three, in verse one. And this is Paul writing. Now, Paul, remember, he was not married, but I think it applies. Paul writes to the Thessalonian church, therefore, when we could bear it no longer we were willing to be left behind at Athens alone. And we sent Timothy, our brother and God’s co worker in the gospel of Christ, to establish and exhort you in your faith that no one be moved by these afflictions. Okay, so Paul writes, he wasn’t married. But he did have a companion and his companion was Timothy. And the words that Paul uses for Timothy all the time, it’s like his beloved son, his beloved brother, his true companion, right. So Paul, really love Timothy, Timothy was super useful to Paul. And yes, when the Thessalonian church was in trouble, Paul says, he was willing to be left behind alone. And I think that was the mark of the Spirit in Paul, that he was willing to give up, even his dearest truest Best Beloved companion, because he wanted the church to do well. And he wanted the church to be established and exhorted in faith, as he says, and not moved by afflictions. And so on those nights when I’m at home, you know, doing the dishes when I thought I was gonna be going out to dinner, or I thought we were going to be celebrating a birthday or having fun or whatever. I just asked the Lord, to give me the spirit of Paul, that I will be willing to be left behind alone, for the sake of His church, that the church then wouldn’t be troubled by its afflictions. And I know that the same spirit that was at work, and Paul and Paul can be at work in me. And so that gives me a lot of confidence. Not that I don’t sometimes cry, but

Kari Olson
Oh, thank you. Oh, my goodness, that brings me to tears almost just that. So specifically speaks into what you asked Kristen? And, Megan, how did that first come to you? I mean, were you reading ever noticed

Megan Hill
it? That’s wonderful. Yeah. It’s just one of those things that as I was reading through, I mean, I love the Apostle Paul. Right. His love for the church is just over and over. And I also always notice how Paul, he didn’t always have a great experience in the church. You know, I mean, he people accused him of all kinds of horrible things. The church didn’t treat him very well, you know, they didn’t receive His teaching that, you know, he was often, you know, sent away from them, you know, so I’m always thinking like, Paul is sort of a pastor’s wife in a way, you know, he, he has this experience and he loves the church, and yet the church kind of mistreats him so my as I’m reading through it, I’m always like, looking like what can I learn from Paul about being a pastor’s wife in any way? That’s just one that stuck out to me.

Kristen Wetherell
That is so fresh and wonderful. I love that I’m not going to forget that. I’m going to start looking for Paul hear

Kari Olson
me do and

Megan Hill
I feel the pastor’s wife.

Kari Olson
A little more kinship. It’s called UW that is so precious. Thank you for sharing that story. And I love your example of the internal dialogue. Being script Jerry, it has to be scripture in those moments when I’m struggling so deeply and so familiarly. Is that a word? It seems so familiar. I know how to sabotage myself in those situations because of my sinful nature. But my internal dialogue, then now needs to be the words of the spirit, and scripture in order to change my heart. I need that. Oh, thank you so much for telling us that. Okay, so one last bit of encouragement from you. What would you say to the pastor’s wife? Who does feel maybe burnt out? Maybe she does feel overextended? Maybe she’s discouraged. What would you say to her in this moment?

Megan Hill
Yeah, I think that, you know, we can just take so much comfort from Christ. In those moments when we do feel like I’ve given everything and there’s nothing to show for it. And it’s not going well, or I’m the only one who’s doing anything around here, or I’ve been mistreated in some way, you know, I would say to that woman, you know, Sister Christ has been there before you. And, you know, Christ came, and he gave everything for the church. And he was mistreated in the bargain. And he didn’t immediately get to see any results, you know, on, on Easter morning, he was resurrected. And yet, you know, there was still just this small band of stragglers, and some of them didn’t even believe in the resurrection at first. And, you know, and, and so I think it can be our encouragement, that Christ has been there ahead of us. And so we can come honestly before the Lord and say, I’m feeling this way. I know, this was your experience, too. And yet, the same spirit that was at work in Christ, to enable him to go to the cross, to enable him to experience that mistreatment and that discouragement and yet to be faithful, that spirit as it’s the Spirit of Christ that we’re given. And so we have that spirit in us as well. And so that can encourage us to go forward, knowing that the strength that Christ received is the strength that we can receive as well.

Kristen Wetherell
Amen. Amen. Makes me think of the verse in Hebrews that says, Jesus was tempted in every way as we are, yet without sin. And isn’t that our hope as well for when, for when my attitude isn’t pleasing to the Lord, and I fail to know that he stands in my place, and he is my righteousness, and he stands on the right hand of the Father praying for me, and working even now for me on my behalf. That is, that is our hope. Thank you for expressing that so beautifully. Megan. We’re so grateful for your time and we encourage all of our other listeners to grab Meghan’s books. They are just as robust as this interview has been. And she will continue to point you to Scripture and appoint you to Christ there. So thank you, Megan, we appreciate your ministry so much.

Megan Hill
Thanks so much for having me. It’s great to talk to you.

Kari Olson
Well, Kristin, I’m so thankful to Megan for leading the way in such thoughtful living of she’s so she’s so thoughtfully wanted to love and serve the church. And you can tell that, but I’m thankful for us to have her as an example, in applying scripture to her internal dialogue. That was huge. That was huge to me. And I hope that others are encouraged by that, too. I think it’s worthwhile to read that verse one more time that she opened up to us first Thessalonians three, one, because we are left, often. But really, we want our prayer to be God make me willing make me willing like Paul, so let me read that one more time for us. First Thessalonians three one, Paul says, Therefore, when we could bear it no longer we were willing to be left behind at Athens alone. When we sent Timothy, our brother and God’s co worker in the gospel of Christ, to establish and exhort you in your faith. Oh, Lord, make us willing to be left. Make us willing to send our husband out for the gospel to exhort and encourage others in their faith.

Kristen Wetherell
Yes, yes. Amen. And I love to that that is equally our aim, right? We are freeing up our husbands with willing spirits to do what God has called them to do to establish and exhort the church in their faith. But what did he aim for us as well? Lord, make that my heart to want the church to be established and is worded in the faith. It just kind of blows our perspective. Yeah. I’m open to God’s perspective. Yeah. No, that is precious. And I, yeah, we mentioned to Maggie, I said, I’m gonna write that on an index card and put it somewhere because it’s so helpful to me. I’ve just never noticed that verse before. One other thing that she said that was helpful to me, was the nature of change, and seasons, and how what God may call us to right now in terms of service in the church, may not be what he’s calling us to in a year or five years or 10 years. And for me, my personality, that’s so helpful, because I’m very, I like to know what’s going to happen. I’m a very type A, I would like to know what I’m doing for the next 15 years. That would be great. Thank you very much. Yeah, that’s just not the way that life is. And I think that that’s another way that the attitude of our hearts can be willingness before the Lord is just to say, Okay, what do you want me doing today? Board? And then tomorrow, same, the same thing. What do you have me doing today, Lord, you know, whether it’s in our home or outside of our home, that was really helpful for me,

Kari Olson
so helpful, because no doubt God will use as he wants us to love and serve the church. No doubt he will use us or he will use our family or husbands. But he is our attitude is important. And I’m thankful for that conversation here that our attitude before the Lord is, was the focus even well, to our sisters, with a front row seat, God sees you and he has given you the desire that you feel to love and serve the church well, so you can trust that He will lead you. Thanks for joining us today.